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TRANSCRIPT:

DOUG: Shannon, you have somewhat of a unique experience in that coming through the PR path. You now have a much broader role at Ogilvy Health. Can you share that?

SHANNON: Yeah, absolutely. So, my current job is Chief Operating Officer, as well as overseeing the PR, Social, and influence discipline at Ogilvy Health. This is a newer role for me. I’ve been in the role for about a year now, and it has really been, for me, a great pivot in my career to not only be so embedded within the PR and communications discipline, but now really seeing how it all connects and being able to help pull it through to the rest of the agency. So, in my new role, I’m really able to see it from a leadership position of how all the marketing and communications disciplines mix together, and also the benefit of coming at challenges as one agency. And it really actually is the way we are running our business now. I think with our new CEO at the helm, Mario Muredd, he really values the earned first approach, which traditionally came from the PR and communications lens of the way we do business, but there’s a lot of interest in pulling that way of thinking now into advertising and the other disciplines, you know, when we’re trying to solve a problem.

DOUG: Yeah. Well, kudos to you for having that role. And it’s been a frequent topic on the show about where PR fits with some of the other disciplines. So, I think you would have a unique perspective. So, for others who aren’t organized quite like your organization, do you have any advice for them on how the different disciplines can sort of work in sync? Because obviously that’s a key part of the offering. They’re not all going in different directions.

SHANNON: What I’m seeing is that earned first lens is actually taking the lead on a lot of the thinking and ensuring that that’s baked into programming, to the idea creation, to the creative. So, you know, from my perspective, I think, it’s a great time to be in the PR social and influence realm, where it’s finally, I think, I guess I keep on saying seat at the table, finally it’s getting it, you know, credit.

DOUG: Maybe they’re starting to get a seat at our table.

SHANNON: Right, exactly.

DOUG: For now, it’s just about time and the mentality, but to earn first, it is so important because it’s not just putting stuff in front of them. Are they going to watch it? Are they going to pay attention? Will they share it? Will they talk about it? Will it have an impact on them?

SHANNON: It’s making sure that you have the authenticity within your messages, and also that it’s driving to the cultural context. And I think that is such a key element of everything that we do because if you don’t have that, then, you know, frankly, the authenticity is not there.

DOUG: And another trend we’ve been seeing and hearing about is, you know, the length of tenure for CMOs, and it’s a lot shorter. So, what are some tips you have for maintaining client relationships across the long term, when clients are so much more frequently going through transitions?

SHANNON: It all comes down to maintaining healthy client relationships. We’re just seeing such rapid scientific advancements right now, especially in healthcare marketing. We have evolving regulatory landscapes. We have shifting patient behaviors, an explosion of digital channels. I mean, I think everyone now wants to really understand how to best use the influencer. How do we best use influencer marketing? How is our social paid, owned, and earned all working together? So, I think the biggest thing that we can do is really not have a vendor-client relationship. It just simply doesn’t cut it. It comes down to really becoming that indispensable strategic partner and not just a service provider. I think clients, that’s what clients honestly are looking for. And so, my number one tip would be, in order to be that strategic partner, what you must do is really understand your client’s business and proactively demonstrate that knowledge.

DOUG: Yeah. And if I can throw in a literary reference, you don’t want to have that Scarlett V for vendor as part of how you’re working. That doesn’t work really well. That’s about the only literary reference I’d be able to pinpoint. One of the phrases that I love that you like using is casting a team. Obviously, keeping a client long term means you have to also keep your team long term. That’s going to be a huge help. So, instead of just the hiring, what are you thinking about when you’re casting a team?

SHANNON: We all have talent within our agencies, but it’s really about building that deep, empathetic team that’s that mirrors the complexity of the client’s needs. So yes, we need great communication, but in healthcare, we need people with a good, deep understanding of the vertical, someone who can grasp the science, navigate the FDA. You don’t need a medical degree, but you need to speak the language and get the nuances. So, for me, when we cast a team, it’s about creating a team of diverse backgrounds. You know, maybe we have someone from pharma marketing, maybe we have a former health journalist on the team, a public health expert. It depends on the client challenges, of course, but I think beyond that, and just the expertise, I think you also need the strategic driver as part of that team. Someone who sees the big picture, who can connect the PR business goals to the rest of the marketing goals. Then you need that, you know, amazing type a day-to-day contact who focuses on delivery, ensuring prompt responses, emails are answered, and the client is heard. Then, honestly, I think you also need that client whisperer. I like to call them the person who really has an incredible emotional intelligence, who just gets the client, anticipates their needs, they build that deep trust. And I think if you have that trifecta of people, that’s really when the magic happens.

DOUG: Got it. And that’s a great answer for a team that works on a specific account and with a specific client. There’s also the challenge, especially with you, you know, overseeing all these different disciplines of having an internal team that works together, especially when they’re working across disciplines, because I know there have been some other agencies, you know, going back where they’re sort of fighting each other for who’s going to get the budget of that, you know, they might have a separate PNL, different lines, and their like pressure to develop it. So, some of the attention is focused on that. Is there a way you’ve been able to first let’s take the building, the whole team, so it can work holistically, and maybe give you that flexibility to assign them to specific clients, but then also how you get each group, what’s the mentality to get them all working together?

SHANNON: Sometimes that still happens, but that’s the nature of the business. We all want to grow our businesses. We want to make sure that we have, you know, the right budgets, but we also, at the end of the day, we have to make sure the client is happy. So, I think before we embark, and, you know, we’re in a good position because we already are operating as these integrated Agencies, which is fantastic. I mean, I still think, though, before we embark on any kind of assignment, we meet as leaders. And we talk about, okay, based on what clients are asking, what kind of expertise do we need to help build this? So, then we work with our head of delivery, project management, and we really start building out the team based on the need. And at the end of the day, I think it’s wonderful that everyone can really agree on, okay, this is what’s going to make us grow in the long run, and opportunities will still come to us if we’re delivering on the basic needs of the client. So, you know, that has been working for us. I think having very open conversations, talking about how are we staffing teams, like how agile should we be for some things, you know, that’s a different concept for advertising. I think traditionally PR has always had smaller teams, you know, working on a, you know, multiple projects. Whereas in advertising, you have a lot of experts coming to the table. So, you know, it’s really finessing that perfect team of how much, you know, strategy to creative, to social, to influencer, and ultimately, what are the KPIs we need to deliver and who’s the best person to do that?

DOUG: Of course, everyone would love that here’s the plan proposal, and everything goes perfectly, and that’s how you do it. But of course, there are all sorts of outside impacts, and this sort of volatile environment. Are you able to sort of switch from, okay, because of this? Or now we’re going to take some of the resources from here, put them over there because of specific needs. Do you have that flexibility now?

SHANNON: If you don’t have that kind of setup, I could see it becoming more challenging. It’s easier when you’re working on multiple parts of the business for one client, because then you can actually shift and move things a little bit more easily. I think it goes back to, you know, when I was talking earlier, just about being the right strategic driver for the business. If you have a person who is really listening not to what’s being said, but what’s not being said, and understanding where the business needs to go ultimately. If you’re in tune with that, that is a game-changer. That is when you can plus up on one area, or we can put some things on hold. We can come back to the client and say, we have a different proposal for this. You know, it has to be in tandem with the client, of course. And sometimes the clients agree with it, and sometimes they don’t. We always offer our POV on where we think we would make the most impact. Yes, I think it’s a fine line. It’s a delicate dance sometimes, but ultimately, if you keep your client at the center of your business, that really should dictate what needs to happen.

DOUG: Right. And is your mindset that you’re keeping clients at the center of your business. Of course, that’s so important for any business to be successful. Any advice for brands, people, and communicators on the brand side in making sure they get the most out of whoever their partners and can be, whether they’re working with a consultant, whether they’re working with a large agency. But what are some things they should be keeping in mind to make sure that their partners give them the most for the money they’re spending?

SHANNON: Everyone has a different way of working. So, I think having flexibility to help, I guess, shape the team that you’re working with is, I think, critical for success. But I would also say being transparent, open, and honest right from the beginning, even if something doesn’t sit well, whether small or large, you know, if it’s a larger thing, we’re going to hear about it, but even the small little things, if something’s, you know, bothering a client, I would say, but get it out on the table, put it out there. Because the thing is, sometimes, like, we just don’t want to keep on making mistakes. You know, our ultimate goal is to make the client happy. And if there are little things that we can change to make sure that we’re doing our best job and we’re delivering the best way that we can, we will pivot. I mean, that’s what an agency does. We’re all in this for client service. Sometimes I think there’s definitely, you know, we are on a path for delivery. Sometimes it might require saying, well, let’s take a pause here. Let’s talk about it. Let’s make sure. Did we like what just happened? Like, is there a way that we can pivot quickly, or do we move here, or like, let’s look at the results and say, you know, let’s do more or less of that. So, I think it really does come down to making sure you have that open communication with your agency and on multiple levels. So, for example, we always like to relationship map. So, like the day to day should be talking. And then maybe there is a level above those of the day where, you know, the senior leaders and their senior leaders need to be in contact. So, there are multiple layers to help solve and to also discuss and get additional POVs. And I think if you have multiple touchpoints within an agency, as well as within the corporate side and the client side, that is always helpful.

DOUG: Shannon, lots of great advice for people in our field, but also for people on how they live their lives as well. So, thank you for that value, and it’s great to talk to you.

SHANNON: Great talking to you.